Forums - How to play MvC2 correctly Show all 66 posts from this thread on one page Forums (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/index.php) - Strategy & Tactics (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=10) -- How to play MvC2 correctly (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=50665) Posted by Zeo on 01:02:2002 06:59 AM: How to play MvC2 correctly Ever wonder why no matter how long and hard you practice at home or in the arcade against others you dont seem to reach the level that the top US players have? Do you spend hours watching tourney footage, practicing combos and participating in actual tournies without much improvement and wondering if you just dont got what it takes? Well, let me tell you that at least 90 percent of you reading this probably have what it takes to become one of the best. The top players whose names you know by heart are not superior to you in anyway except in that they have a natural ability for mental discipline. Needless to say that this discipline can be strengthened like any muscle, with hard work of course. In the preceding words I will list to you some excersices and guidelines by which you can 'workout' your mental discipline. This guide goes especially to those who like playing rush down charaters like magneto or storm, or even if your style is rush down but you use chars like sentinal etc. These tips that I am about to expose to you (the ambituous shoryuken reader) are advanced techniques and take alot of discipline and patience. Once you learn to master these guidelines I guarantee that your game will improve(please do not sue me if it doesnt). Beginners who are still sort of new at this game will benefit most from this because they have not yet built up any of the bad habbits that tend to show up after playing MvC2 blindly for hours at home. This guide will also benefit the intermidiate player or even the advanced. The first thing we must take notice of is the main structure of the game. What I mean by this is what makes up the important pieces of the playing style. Things that no matter what your style of gameplay is, you have to incorporate into your overall game. The first is ofcourse the all mighty assist button capabilities. So this gives us two types of participant characters=== #1 being the main character that you control and #2 being the assist char that you may call out at your dispossal. If I were to ask which of the two is most important, most of you would answer the first one (main character) This has some truth to it but may be misunderstood. Without a doubt the most important aspect about this game is the assists! Think of it as, the main character being a musician, and the assist as the instrument by which the musician uses to make music. The musician(main char) is very important ofcourse but he must learn how to play the instrument or else he is useless.(hope i havent lost anyone). Now lets get into the specifics of how assists should be used and how to avoid getting hit by them. Lets say your playing with a character like magneto and you can be very agressive and fast with him. Now lets suppose your fighting this one guy who picks cable and turtles extremely with him and on top of all this he has a psylocke assist to give him his free AHV's. So you rush him with all the crossups you got and other quick tricks and yet he keeps hitting you with psylocke and landing his Ahv's the whole match. Such a senario is very common because--A. the magneto player lacks the mental discipline B. He just simply doesnt know when to attack and when to wait. So how do you know when to attack and when to wait you say? Well, that is where the assist game comes up. The rhythym of your main charater will always (always!) be set by the assists. When I say rhythym I mean the moment when your advancing with the intent to block and the moments when you should be attacking (crossing up etc.) Here is the first and most important excercise you must practice and discipline your mind with.(when playing your games, set this rule in your mind throughout the match) #1 : You never throw out attack moves while your opponents assist character is NOT on the screen unless ofcourse your safe distance away. #2: The time to attack is after your opponents assists have been called. In those few seconds when your opponents assist is on the screen he or she is assistless, this means that you can attack without the risk of getting hit.(no worries) Not only that but you would still have your assist available to call. From these two guidelines can arrise many different tactics that you may choose to implement within your gamestyle, wether it be rushdown, trap or turtle. Here are some tips on getting the rythym of the match to your advantage. Tip 1------- Getting your opponent to call out his assist first, you can do this several ways. For example, jumping in but blocking will make your opponent want to call out an anti-air assist, or you can also dash forward then immediatley dash back again and your opponent will instictly call out an assist. These are just some examples but there are too many to go into right now(later I will list lots of more details on this) Tip 2------ Remember that if you cannot hurt your opponents main character because they are masters at blocking, you can always hurt their assists. Try this technique: after your opponent calls out his assist counter it by calling your own, Your assist hits his assist and at this point you should be attackin his main character with your own. Well, my shoryuken friends, that is all for now but I will write more on this and many more different tactics later. Feel free to ask questions. I will clear up anything that needs explaining. These first techniques are for the purpose of disciplining your fighting game mentallity. There is alot more to this game and others but for now, these root basics are the beggining to becoming a top (very advanced) MvC2 player. till next post..... Posted by taiji on 01:02:2002 07:08 AM: very good post , its kinda cluttered though, u should space out the paragraphs Posted by Zeo on 01:02:2002 07:14 AM: Thanks, yeah its kinda messy, I should have edited it more before i posted but I was anxious to get it into the open. Glad you liked it though Posted by Evil_Sentinal on 01:02:2002 07:39 AM: Thx for all the advice first I must get my DC back from my cousin and start practising!! and then I shall beat him down with my Evil Sentinal (Hard Kick when choosing sentinal!!) muwhahah Posted by Caoboi on 01:02:2002 09:15 AM: very well said, fellow h-town player Posted by Zeo on 01:03:2002 04:12 AM: I have established the point that you should only be attacking your opponent when his assist character is already on the screen. This is because you are 100 percent guaranteed to be safe from being hit by an assist. Now lets examine other points in the match where your opponent is also assistless. The main one is when your opponent is superjumping. From the second your opponent starts his superjump until his feet land on the ground again he is unable to call out an assist. This is a point where you must also take innitiative. In this scenario you will have several choices to act on. #1. If your opponent is superjumping towards you or you are right under him during his superjump then you can go for the grab. Thats right, just superjump right next to him and grab. Its guaranteed damage and its too fast for most people to tech hit right away. This skill takes quite a bit of practice but once mastered, is essential to becoming a pro. (note: When your superjumping up to your opponent, think of it as another form of dashing, only its vertical, instead of horizontal -->, and its also alot faster!) #2. Another option you can take when your opponent is in superjump mode is going for the attack. But going for the attack is not as simple as it may sound. In order to be effective you must attack from the side which your opponent least expects it. So how do you know which side your opponent is not expecting. Well let me give you a little secret. Its the side which is more difficult for you to be on. For example, if the opponent is trying to superjump over you while your still on the ground, let him cross over you. Once he is over you and before he hits the ground, superjump backwards so that you would be uncrossing his crossup. It is likely that he would not be expecting an attack from that side because he thought he had already crossed over you. This is a hard tactic to explain fully and requires alot of your own experimentation. (note: when your doing your own superjumps, try and notice what side your expecting an attack from. That is the side where the scrubs or average players will try to attack you. The other side will be where pros will catch you off your guard) #3. The last option that you have is to wait on the ground and set up an attack plan there. For example, you can wait for the opponent to land on top of you and call an anti-air assist, or cross him under by dashing and then calling out an assist or if youve got the right distance cross him under by dashing and grab. You will see as you approach higher levels of skill that the best teacher will come from within yourself. In order to predict an opponent you must Ask yourself during a match what would you do if you were in your opponents situation, and then counter it. I can only give you a guide but you must decide how to use it remeber, patience and practice (not of combos, but of techniques) will pay off. That is it for now, next one ill talk about more advanced ways of grabbing (which is very important) and several other assist factors Posted by MagStormPsy4EvA on 01:03:2002 05:15 AM: errmmm...... most of us knew this already..... no offense at all though... Posted by NerenatwaH on 01:03:2002 05:27 AM: Sometimes I actually wonder how much time we all have on our hands. Posted by Zeo on 01:03:2002 05:38 AM: Im glad you know this stuff, but the truth is that alot of peeps here dont know it, if they did then comp in USA would be hell of alot more fierce than it is now. Even some people that know it still dont actually use it during real matches. They forget because they lack mental discipline and therefore jump in at wrong times or do stupid things that get your whole team killed by cable. As basic as some of this stuff sounds, it is the people who pull these techniques meticulously that are the champions. And as I have said earlier, these are just the advanced basics. I will get into complete strats and specialities with certain characters later on. Posted by HuStLeMaN17 on 01:03:2002 05:47 AM: quote: Originally posted by Zeo Im glad you know this stuff, but the truth is that alot of peeps here dont know it, if they did then comp in USA would be hell of alot more fierce than it is now. Even some people that know it still dont actually use it during real matches. They forget because they lack mental discipline and therefore jump in at wrong times or do stupid things that get your whole team killed by cable. As basic as some of this stuff sounds, it is the people who pull these techniques meticulously that are the champions. And as I have said earlier, these are just the advanced basics. I will get into complete strats and specialities with certain characters later on. Yes its true I know all this stuff but I dont have the mental discipline yet do that stuff, Iam working on it and getting better but your right there is always room for improvement,thanks Posted by blk_brotha on 01:03:2002 03:36 PM: zeo, hey your lectures on dis post are more breif and clearifyed. cuz i've been doin some stupid shit like gettin my whole team whooped by cable cuz of a AAA. but u made me found out a few strats and solutions to fix tha problem. and i got one question for u. say like u have a person with an air dash like storm or mag, what if u super jump and ad forward to cable and u have a sent ground assist and u attempting to cross him up what would be tha chances of gettin hit by his AAA and a AHVB? Posted by MagStormPsy4EvA on 01:03:2002 08:04 PM: quote: Originally posted by Zeo Im glad you know this stuff, but the truth is that alot of peeps here dont know it, if they did then comp in USA would be hell of alot more fierce than it is now. Even some people that know it still dont actually use it during real matches. They forget because they lack mental discipline and therefore jump in at wrong times or do stupid things that get your whole team killed by cable. As basic as some of this stuff sounds, it is the people who pull these techniques meticulously that are the champions. And as I have said earlier, these are just the advanced basics. I will get into complete strats and specialities with certain characters later on. thats really true that the fact alot of SRK'ers dont know it.....Damn u must have the first best post i have ever seen I wonder what Zero's first post was.....lololol Posted by DeathFromAbove on 01:03:2002 08:24 PM: I think most of us know this and use this when we're starting the match. We only stop when we get desperate in a match. I think that's why about 75% of people are unable to make a comeback against a significant lead. -DFA Posted by IcarusDownworks on 01:03:2002 08:40 PM: quote: Originally posted by Zeo I have established the point that you should only be attacking your opponent when his assist character is already on the screen. This is because you are 100 percent guaranteed to be safe from being hit by an assist. Now lets examine other points in the match where your opponent is also assistless. The main one is when your opponent is superjumping. From the second your opponent starts his superjump until his feet land on the ground again he is unable to call out an assist. This is a point where you must also take innitiative. In this scenario you will have several choices to act on. Be really carefull doing this against charecters like Doom, Dhalsim, War Machine, Iron Man, (uh I'm pretty sure that's it) because these charecter CAN call assists at super jump height because by doing the d+rh the air-dash, it puts them back in normal jump mode where they can call an assist, even though than are at sj height. Posted by Zeo on 01:03:2002 08:55 PM: blk_brotha, im not sure I understand the question but tell you this. If you call out your Sentinal assist with an attempt to cross up, you must make sure that your magneto or storm is close enough to Cable to cross him up fast. and dont wait till you see Sentinal come out, just do it immediately after you press the assist button. As for the chances of getting hit by an assist, well there is a chance that you will be hit by the assist, but it will probably be after youve crossed him up, and he wont be able to AHV you because sentinal drones would cover you from behind, but it is also possible that the assist will miss if you do it fast enough. I hope that was what you were looking for Posted by blk_brotha on 01:03:2002 10:26 PM: quote: Originally posted by Zeo blk_brotha, im not sure I understand the question but tell you this. If you call out your Sentinal assist with an attempt to cross up, you must make sure that your magneto or storm is close enough to Cable to cross him up fast. and dont wait till you see Sentinal come out, just do it immediately after you press the assist button. As for the chances of getting hit by an assist, well there is a chance that you will be hit by the assist, but it will probably be after youve crossed him up, and he wont be able to AHV you because sentinal drones would cover you from behind, but it is also possible that the assist will miss if you do it fast enough. I hope that was what you were looking for yeh dats what im talkin about so i gotta be kinda close to him. so most likely i will get hit by an AAA but it depneds on which ones right? thanx. Posted by Zeo on 01:03:2002 11:50 PM: yeah, if your opponent has psylocke then it is more likely that you might get hit but not Ahv. Cyclops assist is not as quick so youll be safer against that. You got to watch out for captain commando assist though, cause if that hits you then you get popped way back to the corner of the screen and then he can ahv your sentinal Posted by HuStLeMaN17 on 01:04:2002 12:49 AM: Zeo do you happen to use Low-Tier by chance??? Posted by F£É§h~Ñ~BoÑè on 01:04:2002 02:50 AM: quote: Originally posted by blk_brotha zeo, hey your lectures on dis post are more breif and clearifyed. cuz i've been doin some stupid shit like gettin my whole team whooped by cable cuz of a AAA. but u made me found out a few strats and solutions to fix tha problem. and i got one question for u. say like u have a person with an air dash like storm or mag, what if u super jump and ad forward to cable and u have a sent ground assist and u attempting to cross him up what would be tha chances of gettin hit by his AAA and a AHVB? hey BLK....didn't mixup tell you thats a no no when playing against cable......never superjump and air dash straight across......kauze thats pretty much asking for a AHVB......i used to it too....now i dont at all....its the mental discipline dawg.... Posted by Zeo on 01:04:2002 03:09 AM: I use a bit of low tiers, I find them fun. Some that I use are Team shoto, venom, ironman, dhaslim, felicia, charlie, and little bit of ice man Posted by HuStLeMaN17 on 01:04:2002 03:59 AM: quote: Originally posted by Zeo I use a bit of low tiers, I find them fun. Some that I use are Team shoto, venom, ironman, dhaslim, felicia, charlie, and little bit of ice man Aight coo I was just wondering if you actual use them cometivly, so how we'll do you place in tournys. you sound like you know a lot so... Posted by MagStormPsy4EvA on 01:04:2002 04:09 AM: quote: Originally posted by Zeo I use a bit of low tiers, I find them fun. Some that I use are Team shoto, venom, ironman, dhaslim, felicia, charlie, and little bit of ice man ......please just [please dont think IM is low tier..... if u know his setups and u can cross up and do his good air combos he aint low tier.....i highly think the tiers go storm sentinel ironman magnus then blah blah blah...... but ironman ios defintely not low tier.... Posted by Zeo on 01:04:2002 05:52 AM: sorry, let me refrase, when i wrote low tier i meant characters that arent too commonly used at the top, but you are right, Iron man should not be considered low tier, he is really close to top tier Posted by CowSquared on 01:04:2002 07:50 AM: If anyone though otherwise, I would like to say that this is a VERY good post. To often on the strategy page people post a lot of button presses and ways to do stuff. These posts often get flamed and such because other people have other perfectly legitimate ways to do it and they think the other person's wrong. Well this post is really good and even though there are different ways to think about it, a mental game post is really what we need. Zeo just proposed some ways to look at it and IMO more posts like this would be nice. This is because I have a horrible mental game. I'll admit, I get screwed over by some scrubs because I play a crappy mental game, but I have more combos, button presses, and tricks under my sleeve, and its because of my mental game that I lose. Posted by Silent Storm on 01:04:2002 08:19 AM: Zeo, this is a very good post and I enjoyed it. And i am one who needs to get mentally tougher. How do you stop a person who is super good with magneto from triangle jumping around your head and crossing you up? Posted by krx original on 01:04:2002 08:29 AM: quote: Originally posted by CowSquared If anyone though otherwise, I would like to say that this is a VERY good post. To often on the strategy page people post a lot of button presses and ways to do stuff. These posts often get flamed and such because other people have other perfectly legitimate ways to do it and they think the other person's wrong. Well this post is really good and even though there are different ways to think about it, a mental game post is really what we need. Zeo just proposed some ways to look at it and IMO more posts like this would be nice. This is because I have a horrible mental game. I'll admit, I get screwed over by some scrubs because I play a crappy mental game, but I have more combos, button presses, and tricks under my sleeve, and its because of my mental game that I lose. Same here. You can have all the combos and strategies in the world, but if you cant play mindgames or your brain locks up in the middle of a match (like me), then it's all rather useless. Posted by Zeo on 01:04:2002 09:15 AM: Thanks to all for your posts, Im glad to see that my post is appreciated Silent Storm: Good question. When you are on the ground, magneto crossups are too fast for someone to visually block in the right direction, but there are things you can do that seem like you have inhuman blocking reactions. (note: when people first started playing with magneto, it used to be considered safer to block down all the time, but as people got better with cross ups, blocking up becomes crucial) #1 First thing you must do when fighting a fast triangle-jump happy magneto is remeber to always block up, even when you feel the urge to crouch. (Normal jumping is a great technique, when you see he gets close start normal jumping.) #2. but even more important than just blocking up is the push block, this is the best technique that can be used against good rush down. Several push blocks (timed well) will usually get the job done. #3. The pushblocks are for a very important purpose. Let me explain, When avoiding good rushdown it is crucial that you normal jump almost every good chance you get because it is almost near impossible to triangle jump over somebody who is normal jumping. Now here is where the pushblocks play a crucial role. When you pushblock it pushes the opponent a little away from you, at this point you can normal jump forward or backward and at the same time call out your anti-air assist. More than likely he wont like you pushblocking, so he will keep trying to triangle attack you, but since you already normal jumped and called an assist, he will definatley get hit by it. Is is possible that when you jumping, you might get thrown, but it does not happen all the time. I would take a measly throw over being crossed up any day Heres a little fun experiment you can do if you have a dreamcast and an MvC2 copy. Go to training mode pick magneto, and any character to be the dummy. Now for the dummy settings, fix it so that the dummy will keep constantly normal jumping and also blocking. Now you try and make the dummy block low by dashing and goind for the usual magneto low attack. Youll notice how hard it is to actually make the dummy block low. Now try and triangle jump over it Thats how difficult it will be to cross you up if you use techniques like this. summary: block up then pushblock his first hard kick, normal jump and call out an assist. (note: sometimes when your on the ground and you call an anti-air assist to get rid of rushdown, it misses. If the magneto was fast enough the assist will go past him----cyclops does this more. ever noticed that? Well, this does not happen when you call an assist while normal jumping. When normal jumping, your assist comes out nearer to you than when your on the ground. Thats why jumping and calling assist is so important against rush) ps: Try and fight as many good rushdown people that you can so you can get practice Posted by asianhitler on 01:04:2002 09:39 AM: Great posts Zeo. So this is what you've been doing all this time. I agree that the game (any game) is mostly about mentality. The more you can read your opponent the better you can do. Why r u bashing cyclops so much? He's top tier! Jesus Christ! And since when were the shotos low tiers? You seen them hang with the best of characters. Posted by Silent Storm on 01:04:2002 10:18 AM: quote: Originally posted by asianhitler Great posts Zeo. So this is what you've been doing all this time. I agree that the game (any game) is mostly about mentality. The more you can read your opponent the better you can do. Why r u bashing cyclops so much? He's top tier! Jesus Christ! And since when were the shotos low tiers? You seen them hang with the best of characters. thanks zeo i think that will help me a lot and about the shotos, they aren't good enough to contend with any of the top tiers even though i love those three to death Posted by Unreallystic on 01:04:2002 07:02 PM: I normally don't post on this side of the forum, but I feel inclined to right now. I must say this is a very worth while thread. For one even if you know alot of this stuff already, reinforcement is always good for good habits. Two, I think reading it will make you actually think about it more in actual combat. When someone super jumps I normally do what you suggested, but now I will approach it a little different (your way), and I will actively think about it, I think making me a little better than I was 5 minutes ago. Now all I have to do get Magneto up to speed with the faster Magneto's on the east...damn crouch cancel... Posted by MagStormPsy4EvA on 01:04:2002 07:52 PM: quote: Originally posted by Zeo sorry, let me refrase, when i wrote low tier i meant characters that arent too commonly used at the top, but you are right, Iron man should not be considered low tier, he is really close to top tier thanks, heh.... ya ironman isnt normally used...YET heh.... but ppl like Peter (combofiend) and nun and all dem' jap players use him heh.... Posted by Defective on 01:04:2002 08:01 PM: I think this is the stuff Ink must have been talking about when he made the new forum rules. I understand this stuff on the basic level but my mental discipline is lacking so I do dumb shit like run into Commando. You also hit the nail on the head in my case about push blocking. I hardly ever do this and I really don't understand the practical applications in battle (of course I'm usually playing rushing characters). Anyway I can't wait to see where this goes and I have one tip: If you MUST attack a character who doesn't have an assist out use a single Jab or Short. This way it you can the block the reversal type assists that follow. Don't be the idiot who sees a high blocking Cable and dashes up with a low Short launcher chain only to be Gene Spliced 1 second later. If you're really slick you can toss them before their assist comes out. This is a good thread because there are probably many people like me who haven't mastered all the basics. Posted by IcarusDownworks on 01:04:2002 08:13 PM: Let's face it, Iron Man is a hard charecter to learn, and even harder to master, but for the true IM masters he is top tier. I think for everyone who has an average IM they could make a much better argument for him being top tier if he had a really good assist. If you look at the charecters who pretty much EVERYONE says is top tier (Cable, Storm, Sent, etc.) the are really good charecters to fight with, but they also have killer assists. By the same coin, some charecters that have really good assists (CapCom anyone?) who die like bitches when you have to actually play them at the end of the match aren't top tier in my opinion either. Anyways, that's just my take on it. Posted by Zeo on 01:05:2002 12:54 AM: Thanks again everyone. Im glad that I have helped some of you think more about your own game And you bring up an excellent point defective. I hope this thread can continue like this and the input that everyone gives will help each other out Posted by Silent Storm on 01:05:2002 06:12 AM: What are some infinites with storm? Posted by HuStLeMaN17 on 01:06:2002 12:51 AM: Do you think you could list some stratagys on how to get out of traps and how to counter there trapping style thanks. Posted by voodazz on 01:06:2002 02:18 AM: I just wanna say how great this thread is and how much it has helped my gameplay. Yes, true I already knew some of this stuff, but there was alot I didn't know and I smack myself upside the head for not knowing sooner. Anyway, thanks to this thread and this forum, I think I'm on the verge of taking my game to the next level. I officially OWN the local arcade "ace" where I live and he is hella good... no Wong or Viscant, but still pretty damn good, so I know I've improved. Keep it up, Zeo! Posted by CowSquared on 01:06:2002 06:07 AM: Eeep, this thread is retreating. *bump* Even though this is a MvC2 thread I would like to say that if you want a major experience in mind game strategies, CvS2 is the better game for the job. Not to be dissing MvC2 or anything cause that's my fav game anyway, I'm just saying that since I picked up the controls to CvS2 I've become a lot more patient in the faster MvC2.. that resulting into more wins so far in the arcades. Again, great thread. Posted by Dc1 on 01:06:2002 06:53 AM: hey zeo, great thread, can u post on the throwing techniques u say u were going to talk about, and also can u give some tips on tech hits too again great post Posted by Iceman on 01:06:2002 07:27 AM: This is a good post, but I think it needs to go a step farther. You said at first the best time to attack as Mag/Storm vs. Cableis after your opponent calls his AAA. But how will you actually make someone call their AAA? After a while they will learn that you won't attack until the AAA is called and stop calling it. Watch next? I'm not a great Mag/Storm player btw, but imo this is where the mind games enter. Do you take a gamble as Mag/Storm and attack even though the AAA hasn't been called? Or do you try to land then throw. Likewise, should Cable keep calling AAA only to have it blocked and hit, or should Cable try attacking himself? All this is important stuff to go into detail on in order to add to that first post imo. BTW, if you want to work mind games, play some old school against someone. Super Turbo and Hyper Fighting are great games because you have to work so hard to attack w/o putting yourself at major risks. Posted by Ex_MaTT on 01:06:2002 08:29 AM: Things I learned about MvC2 Is just to pick the characters your confident with...If u dont have faith in your sentinel being able to fly/unfly intime to avoid a sotrms hailstorm or cable ahvb, then dont pick him. Crouch Cancelling on Magneto is hard to master. It is a good thing to learn but if your not confident enough to pull it off dont try it a lot if you're playing to win. Instead just do the basic combos. Watching people play(and myself)I noticed people like to go for fancy, high damaging combos, when they could easily settle for a much easier combo and done a little less damage. Just do combos you've mastered and are confident with. The Key Is to be confident in your abilities, but not cocky. Dealing with cables: A cable with levels can be the most punishing character in the game. But u cant be afraid to attack him. U must play aggressively but carefully as well. If u eat an AHVB its not that big a deal, If u eat 2, then play carefully and try to get your 2nd guy in asap. If a cable has around half meter, u can tag in and he cant hurt u cause he cant build enough meter to AHVB u. And he has no damaging combos, so keep an eye out on that. Also Baiting cable into wasting supers is good to learn. It might not always work but it usually will if the cable has 3+ levels. Take a character like spiral, she has easy teleport. Make sure u have swords Call your assist an teleport at same time Your assist will eat some of the super but will gain it back so its not a problem. your also left with an open cable, unless they DHC, but this causes them to use another super and takes cable out of the fight. This will allow u to trap and chip their character for a bit. This can also work with a fast character like magneto or storm. Just bait them. I'm not sure if sentinel can fly over AHVB but Use his fly/unfly to bait him. And while using cable vs cable, Just be patient, dont call your assist unless your 100% sure u can cross them up or else your wasting an AHVB to protect them. Also let them make the first move, SJ and shoot bullets to build meter if u have to. Dealing with Rushdown: Most common rushdown is coming from Mag or Storm. So a mag user will most likely SJ xx dash hk c.lk c.lk call assist(psylock/cammy/cyke/etc..)Its best to stop them at their rushdown. best assist for it is Capcom(IMO) other great assist r cammy, cyclops, and psylock. If they dash in they'll generally call there assist, dont be tempted to call your assist, wait for them to call theirs first. After they call their assist they will either dash in c.lk c.lk or c.lk launch. Or rush u down. If u block their attack, it leaves mag + assist open to your anti air(capcom is most likely to hit both, while psylock will set up for combos)If your not confident in your abilities to block the rushdown play aggressively. Doom assist is very good for stopping rushdown and allowing u to move in. Thats my 2cents, I'd write more but I'm tired *Note* If u disagree with anything I posted fine I dont care I dont wanna hear it, this is juss how I play and it works fine for me. And I know u prolly heard some of it before but maybe someone else hasn't. Latez Posted by Zeo on 01:06:2002 09:18 AM: sorry ive been away, well here it goes Posted by Zeo on 01:06:2002 09:57 AM: Throwing tactics: Unlike using the assists, throwing is a tactic that is harder to abuse. An expert thrower will usually be able to change the momentum of the fight to his advantage and bring fear into the opponents mind as a throwing frenzy is performed and calculated before his eyes. The purpose of throwing is not only to take chunks off of life bars but can be used as a phychological tool as well. So when can you or should you throw? The answer: whenever possible. This is not to say that throwing should become your main goal throughout a match but after enough practice and know how, one should be able to instinctly throw when an opportunity arrises. There are several types of throws that I like to categorize as: Dash throws, fear throws, crossover throws and phsycic jump throws. (yeah, names) Some are much easier to pull off than others, but practice makes better. #1. Dash throws is when your opponent is on the ground and you dash up to him and quickly throw him. (note: this is to be taken literatley, do not dash, and do a tick throw, just throw) The trick to pulling off dash throws without risk is being within the right distance. That means you should not have to wave dash to get to the opponent or even need all of a single dash. So point is to already be within close dashing distance. This throw technique is so fast that your opponent wont be able to react in time to do anything and if he happened to call out an assist, it will just go through you because it wont be fast enough to get you before you become invincible during your throw animation. Now heres the real meaty part, if you wanna know every possibility where this can be used I will tell you. Whenever you can dash at your opponent and make them block just a single low kick, that is an instant where you could have done it. This is amazing to me because this sort of thing happens alot during real matches. People dash up with their characters and attack low all the time. For example, alot of magneto players dash and do low kick ,launcher even though the opponent is crouching , so the probablity of them getting hit by the low attack is almost zero. Why not just insert the throw inplace of the low kick #2. Fear throws are something I like to diffirentiate from other throws, because of the versatility that goes with the term. Basically whenever you sense fear in your opponent it is good to take advantage of this. When someone has fear they usually get stuck blocking subconsciously hoping you will just leave them alone. Fear comes usually when the opponent is suddenly overwhelm by whatever you may be doing to him. whether it be a flurry of sudden triangle jumps that confuses the heck out of him (those who have played against crazy computer storm or rougue know what im talking about ) or a trap that he cant get free from. Fear can be used in other ways, not just pulling off that one throw. When a magneto has you in the corner theres only one thing you think about,... not getting thrown. So how do you use this to your advantage? Simple, since their dreadfully expecting a throw, dont plan on doing one, but make them think you will. This effect will make some opponents break down and start pressing random strong attacks in hopes that they will tech a throw. For example, if you have them in a corner, slowly keep walking towards them, then if you hear your opponents press on their buttons uncontrolably,take a step back and just call out your anti-air assist and bingo you got them! If you have ever been trapped in a corner, you know what fear can do to you. #3. My favorite throws are what I like to call cross-over throws. I like these best because once you know where to look for them, they are so obvious and almost unavoidable. Most of these come from when an opponent is just landing from a jump. For example, suppose your on the right side and your opponent is on the left, the opponent does a normal jump towards you with an attemt to jump in attack, just walk forward as soon as they start jumping and stop right after you have crossed under them. By doing this the opponent lands on your left side, now just simply throw them. When an opponent normal jumps, try to put a mental picture of him making a half circle line from the point (A)<--where he starts his jump, to the point (B) where he will end his jump and his target (you) is standing. Now your objective is to move from point (B), to the inside of the arch so that you will no longer be standing at his point (B). Since when hes close to landing you will have barely just crossed under him, the animation of his character turns to face you. During this animation, he cannot attack or do anything and since the animation will occur right as he is landing, you can freely through him, its a given -- --> Prime example of this technique: Say your fighting against a cable on point and he is using his sentinal assist. One thing that you will see many cables do is call out sentinal assist , then normal jump over you. then wait till their sentinal assist is hitting you from the back, in which case they proceed to do their low kick, middle kick, roundhouse combination. The unexperienced player would just try to block all this, but there is no need to block it because it has a flaw. As soon as cable jumps over you and lands, throw him. The sentinal assist will go through you, end of story. (note: the cross over throw can be used in many more situations) #4 Phsycic jump throws: When your fighting an opponent that likes to jump back alot when you get near him,(blackheart,sentinal doc doom ect.) they are vunerable to these type of throws. It goes like this: Dash towards them, they will instictly jump back, but you jump forward because you knew they would jump back and grab them. If they jump a little early then you can jump dash forward and grab. simple as that Well, that is it for now, I will get to some other cool ones later. and also some questions which I didnt get to. I will also give some character against charcter strats like Storm vs Cable, Magneto vs Sentinal or spiral, Blackheart vs rushdown etc. Posted by DeathFromAbove on 01:07:2002 04:55 AM: quote: Originally posted by Zeo #1. Dash throws is when your opponent is on the ground and you dash up to him and quickly throw him. (note: this is to be taken literatley, do not dash, and do a tick throw, just throw) Very good thread, and I'm probably being picky here, but you cannot throw directly out of a dash. The dash has to end first. So dash->throw can only be done if your dash ends within your throwing range naturally, or if you tap down to cancel your dash, stand up, then throw. If you're going to do specific matchups, I'd like to see Strider/Doom vs. jumpback Cable. I can start the trap once I have meter, but how the hell do you build meter safely against Cable? Not S.HP X 4 + Assist Cable, but just constant jumpback Cable? I can't teleport behind that shit, and I've got no clue what else to do. Sending the Zoo is obviously no good. I've tried wavedash, teleport, but I get hit out of the teleport startup. Dash, jump, DJ + assist works sometimes, but once the opponent gets wise to that (read: 2nd time I do it), I get guardbroken. What's left? Wavedash under assist, C.HP? That eats C.LK XX Death 1 out of 3 times. -DFA Posted by mixup on 01:07:2002 05:16 AM: Good discussion going on here. Zeo, how do you feel about the Match-up Magneto Vs Storm? I'd like to know what you think about the common outcome and some ways magneto can take her out vice versa also. Posted by power-dn on 01:07:2002 06:44 AM: quote: Originally posted by Silent Storm What are some infinites with storm? One that I use the most is Storm's inf. against Sent. It's pretty easy to do. What you have to keep in mind when learning infinites is whether or not you think you can pull them off during real play. Since many people use Sent. and the inf. is fairly easy, I pull it off often...here it is... J.FP, J.RH, land, normal jump, J.Short, J.Short, J.FP, J.RH, land, normal jump, J.Short, J.Short, etc. 1. Sent. has to be on the ground. 2. It helps me to hold down-toward during the FP and RH. 3. Pause a little between the FP and RH to allow Storm to float down 4. The FP will stun Sent. to allow the pause then RH. 5. Normal jump towards them and do the two shorts quickly. If the Sent. you play against likes to do ground moves (drones, laser, rocket punch, etc..., then setting up the inf. is fairly easy. P.S. Great thread Zeo... Posted by Sangria on 01:07:2002 07:11 PM: quote: Originally posted by DeathFromAbove If you're going to do specific matchups, I'd like to see Strider/Doom vs. jumpback Cable. -DFA I don't play S/D but I play a guy here (Austin) that has an excelent S/D against my cable. He anticipates my jump back+bullet with a teleport and throws me EVERY time. It is so bad that I never jump back with cable against him. Try it, it works. Cable really shouldn't be able to do much besides sj over and over against a good stryder. Posted by arcticninja on 01:08:2002 02:28 AM: this is a pretty good thread. It's deceptively basic, but it's still good info. Besides, basic stuff can win you matches where fancy shit fails. I have a question: what is a good way to beat Blackheart? That is the one character I have the most trouble against. Any tips would be appreciated. Posted by Ex_MaTT on 01:08:2002 02:35 AM: Arctic: Did u see ShadowFighter beat me with rushdown storm?? Thats one way to own BH. Also Having Cammy assist helps a lot. Just keep pressure on BH cause he is a generally slow character, and leaves himself open after attacks and takes time to attack. So if u pressure him u should do good. Make sure u have a really good anti air. I still think BH is in top3 when it comes to MvC2 tho. A really good BH is hard to beat. Posted by Zeo on 01:08:2002 05:15 AM: when blackheart is superjumping in the air throwing demons, wave dash under him if you can. Some Blackheart players will always attack with the light kicks as they are coming down. So just wait till hes coming down and call anti-air assist. Smarter Blackheart players wont risk attacking as they come down as much. So wave dash under him, make sure you cross under him to his other side and throw him (see cross-over throwing tactic) Alot also depends on what type of assist hes got backing him up? Posted by DeathFromAbove on 01:08:2002 06:38 AM: quote: Originally posted by Sangria I don't play S/D but I play a guy here (Austin) that has an excelent S/D against my cable. He anticipates my jump back+bullet with a teleport and throws me EVERY time. It is so bad that I never jump back with cable against him. Try it, it works. Cable really shouldn't be able to do much besides sj over and over against a good stryder. Thanx. Will try that. Although the HP is usually omitted on the 1st jump backward... Posted by Zeo on 01:08:2002 10:50 AM: Magneto vs Storm: Well heres my take on it. The outcome of these two fighting each other depends alot on the players style and the assist that backs them up. Some Storms will play the rushdown game, others will play the dreadful runaway chip game, especially if they have doom. This is not good news for magneto because even though he is fast, Storm can stay away from him better than the rest. Her big advantage over magneto would have to be her hailstorm super. Its chips well and leaves everything safe(covers hole screen). Magneto will have to keep his assists safe against her. Magneto has many advantages over storm. He's a bit faster and most important he outprioratizes storm in many moves. If theres one move that Storm players love to abuse its her kick launcher. Out of all other charaters,(besides Sentinal) her launcher has the most extension and priority. But Magneto is the only character that beats out her launcher almost 100 percent, with either his fierce attack or his roundhouse. A Magneto player could jump in and attack without having to worry about storm getting the launch off. His moves also outprioratize her in the air. His combos can be more deadly than hers and if missed, he is safer. So to summ it up, Storms advantage is her chip and runaway, and Magneto can abuse his moves. Posted by Zeo on 01:08:2002 10:54 AM: DeathfromAbove: Sorry, but im not much of a stider doom player. I have a friend who is, though. Hes really good with them so Ill ask him for some tips and post em on here Posted by NormalGuy on 01:08:2002 08:30 PM: DeathFromAbove: Throw a HK version of the bomb towards a jump back happy Cable, as long as you throw it out there, he has limited options as to what he can do. Then as soon as he realize jumping back is not exactly to his favor, he will start to come after you. This is where you like him anyway, c.HP beats his jumping roundhouse almost everytime because the swords doesn't have a hitbox. Strider really likes Cable as his opponent, he likes Sentinel too, he just doesn't like Storm and Spiral too much. Zeo: good thread, have to agree on the throwing thing. It's too good to ignore like I used to do because the fear of fast hitting AAAs. It's a decent amount of damage (around 16) plus it gives you the advantage as far as positioning and tempo goes. BTW I thought Storm's c.HP beats Mag's jumping roundhouse, can anyone test this out? Posted by ShadowEdge on 01:08:2002 09:24 PM: This thread is great, I have to admit. Though be even cooler if you you got any tactics for playing BWolverine. My main team is BWolverine/Cable/Doom. Wolverine is my fastest/aggressive character. So much uses Mag and Storm already. So when ur all done with tips/advice, help out! Posted by power-dn on 01:09:2002 05:50 AM: second page?! BUMP Posted by asianhitler on 01:09:2002 08:47 AM: quote: Originally posted by ShadowEdge This thread is great, I have to admit. Though be even cooler if you you got any tactics for playing BWolverine. My main team is BWolverine/Cable/Doom. Wolverine is my fastest/aggressive character. So much uses Mag and Storm already. So when ur all done with tips/advice, help out! I actually use Bonerine as a play around character. Power-dn knows what's up with Bonerine. i think bones go great with doom. beserker special with doom assist chips a lot. Throw using bones fp as many time you can get the chance to. Right when you gain control after the throw, call out doom assist and dash up with bones with lk, rh(launcher). If the opponent rolls from the grab, they'll wake up right on the doom assist. If the opponent decides not to roll, lk,rh will otg them. "No escape!" Dashing up and rh is good to use every now and then since his dash is so fast. his b&b would be cr lk,lk,fp,beserker claw,beserker super[this does not work well against heavyweights and will not work against sentinel]. If u get them in the corner with the b&b, otg with lk, rh (launcher). As they're coming down from the launcher(cannot air combo after this launcher), you have the mind game option to play. If i sense them not doing anything on the way down, I'll throw them and do that trick mention earlier. If i sense them preparing to tech hit a possible grab, i'll jump up and call doom assist when they land. Thats all i have for now. Posted by Zeo on 01:09:2002 09:01 AM: Great strats asianhitler, I know first hand what your wolverine can do So annoying Hopefully you will post more about your strats on any character Posted by Th3 0N3 on 01:09:2002 08:01 PM: although shoving about 8 hours a day into this game every since ive gotten it, i haven't really tried to improve on my mental games and tactics.. now, since i've gotten almost everything down(combos,cancels, etc) I still lack focus against person vs person since most of my freinds are just afraid to face me even though i'm not all that good yet; since i know what i'm doin they think i am, they avoid playin against me; it becomes difficult to develop "mind games" by yourself.. so i was wondering is there anyway to develop these "mind games" alone without really knowing the outcome? Posted by ONION BOY on 01:09:2002 08:49 PM: quote: Originally posted by asianhitler I actually use Bonerine as a play around character. Power-dn knows what's up with Bonerine. i think bones go great with doom. beserker special with doom assist chips a lot. Throw using bones fp as many time you can get the chance to. Right when you gain control after the throw, call out doom assist and dash up with bones with lk, rh(launcher). If the opponent rolls from the grab, they'll wake up right on the doom assist. If the opponent decides not to roll, lk,rh will otg them. "No escape!" Dashing up and rh is good to use every now and then since his dash is so fast. his b&b would be cr lk,lk,fp,beserker claw,beserker super[this does not work well against heavyweights and will not work against sentinel]. If u get them in the corner with the b&b, otg with lk, rh (launcher). As they're coming down from the launcher(cannot air combo after this launcher), you have the mind game option to play. If i sense them not doing anything on the way down, I'll throw them and do that trick mention earlier. If i sense them preparing to tech hit a possible grab, i'll jump up and call doom assist when they land. Thats all i have for now. CAP-E-TON AMERICAN OWNS THAT BITCH BONES FOR FREE! THAT BOY HITLER KNOW WHAT I'M TALKIN ABOUT! DON'T FAKE THE FUNK FOOL! Posted by KungfuJoe on 01:12:2002 05:52 PM: Very good info I will take that into consideration. Posted by KungfuJoe on 01:12:2002 06:19 PM: what strategies are there when it comes to snapbacks versus 1 on 1 or against assists. Posted by power-dn on 01:13:2002 10:22 AM: Zeo, where are you? Posted by Combo Master on 01:13:2002 10:30 AM: quote: Originally posted by NerenatwaH Sometimes I actually wonder how much time we all have on our hands. That question should only rise if the player is overly obsessed with the game to the point where he has no time for family, friends (specially g/f), and other activities. Otherwise, it shouldn't matter how much time we have on our hands because most of it is spent working (I hope this is true) at our jobs or at school. However, free time in the weekends doesn't count because you're obviously not gonna work on a day where you're supposed to rest and have your free time to do whatever! Posted by teammember009 on 01:16:2002 04:48 AM: quote: Originally posted by NormalGuy DeathFromAbove: Throw a HK version of the bomb towards a jump back happy Cable, as long as you throw it out there, he has limited options as to what he can do. If he's jumping back, can't jab VB the bomb(or even eat it with an AAA), recovering before you're free to move? And what about the AHVB. If he guesses right, he might knock you out of a teleport Posted by DarkZero on 01:16:2002 06:20 PM: I feel like Zeo is me. He has the same strats and everything else that I use. All times are GMT. The time now is 12:07 AM. 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